In recognition of the "sexual pluralism" that exists in his homeland, and in spite of intimidation by church and state, the Rt. Rev. Christopher Senyonjo, former Bishop of the Diocese of West Buganda, has been compelled to take a stand in support of gays and lesbians in Uganda. On a recent visit to Grace Cathedral he spoke about his life and family, and his pioneering work with Integrity-Uganda.

You have received both praise and ostracism for your work in ministering to gays and lesbians in Uganda. How did you come to that calling?

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I started as a counselor. In effect, when I retired as Bishop in 1998 I started a consultation and counseling services office. So there were many people coming to me. And among those who came were homosexuals, so I knew about their perplexities and their rejection by the church and the community. Later on, a young priest came to me and said there was a group of homosexuals, Integrity-Uganda, who wanted to meet me. And I was ready to give them support. I said, "Okay -- I will." But then a lot of opposition ensued because when the Bishops heard that I was associated with this homosexual group, they really attacked me. They wanted me to stop, really, being associated with them -- which I couldn't.

You couldn't?

I said, "I will not abandon this group" because I was convinced that the Lord who gazes on me didn't envisage any kind of discrimination.

Could you talk about some of the difficulties encountered by lesbians and gays in Uganda?

They are experiencing a lot of rejection because in our society homosexuality is regarded almost like a taboo. So people wouldn't even like to come out to say they are homosexuals or they are lesbians or they are gays. So when I started really working with them and some of them started to say they were [homosexual], it was not very easy for them. Many of them are really hiding -- just a small group. Almost secretly, we'd meet with them.

What form does that rejection take?

When somebody is a homosexual in a family he's almost rejected. In fact, when I started working with this group my children were very worried because they are working, and their friends were saying, "You're also gay." And it would be very difficult for them. So they were really threatened, and they told me that there would be trouble.

Could you give me an example of a gay person and the situation he or she was in and why that person came to you for counseling?

One person came to me because he was being told that the Bible was against homosexuals, and so you could not really be regarded as a believer, a Christian, if one was a homosexual. But I tried to show this person that the main thing is [a person's] relationship with God.

What about the problems that you personally have faced?

When you retire you continue working in different parishes at the invitation of different Bishops. And I've been doing this. And you get some kind of remuneration. But after I said I'm not going to abandon this group [Integrity-Uganda], one great friend of mine -- a Bishop -- said, "You will not continue to work in my church." And I stopped. And he went on in a kind of campaign, telling other Bishops that homosexuality was wrong and definitely I shouldn't be helping their churches.

Did that surprise you?

Oh, in a way, I didn't know it was going to be so harsh. It did -- definitely. But I had made up my mind I didn't like to be threatened by that or intimidated. It was very hard on me because it stopped some of this income which I needed. And what is more, when I came [to the United States] in March I came here representing a non-governmental organization called WAYS -- that is, Women and Youth Services -- for which I've been a patron. And I was also trying to raise some funds for that group, which is helping with HIV and AIDS in Uganda. By that time, in Uganda, they had started to oppose what I was doing. Things became worse because they started saying that organizations which were utilizing my services should stop it, because I'm going to promote homosexuality. And that organization that is working even still with women and youth -- they said I'm going to promote homosexuality in this group and if they allowed me to continue working with them, others are going to boycott that organization [WAYS].

So it's guilt by association.

Yeah -- so the director told me I should stop working with them, which was right. I stopped.

Because you didn't want to damage that organization?

No -- and the work is good work. So I had to stop, you see? And that was when things became worse, and they said that they were even going to arrest me if I went back. That's why I didn't go back [to Uganda] after that time.

So that was really a threat from the government, then?

No -- mostly from the church.

But the threat of arrest came from the government?

Yeah -- because the church and the government work very closely together. Many of the people in the government are Christians. And if the church is against you, definitely they have a lot of influence. And they brought out a certain law, which we didn't know was there, that homosexuality was illegal in Uganda.

What do you see for the future of Integrity-Uganda?

What is really needed is education. I find that there is a lot of misunderstanding about human sexuality. And I've started writing about it -- because many people regard human sexuality as for procreation and if you think of why we have so much opposition against homosexuality, it is because it is not regarded as productive.

The idea of love didn't come out very easily -- whereas when you read the very beginning in Genesis, Chapter 2, Verse 18 the reason why Adam -- to me, I don't say it was a male, but it was Adam, a being -- the reason why God made a helpmate fit for that being was to heal a loneliness. It does not say, "to have children." Children are okay, but really healing loneliness or aloneness was so important. I think this is the major point. There is a need for education.

So you would like to see that happen on a larger scale?

Yeah -- in fact, I have even written to some of the Bishops that we need this in our seminaries because a wide understanding of human sexuality is really missing.

You've been traveling around the United States and you've been raising money for Integrity-Uganda. How would you like to see that money used?

One thing is, as I've said, education. We need a lot of publications to bring out a number of writings so people really get sensitized about human sexuality. And to have these programs on TV -- the good thing in Uganda now is we have got a kind of freedom of speech, right? So something can come out on TV, some articles in newspapers, and some discussions. That is one way.

What is your impression of lesbians and gays in this country?

I feel that people here have got more freedom [in the United States], and they can talk about who they are without real fear. That's why we need this kind of solidarity. We get encouragement when we meet people who are free to say who they are.

And what is more, I've been given encouragement by people talking about what I'm doing and giving me support. I've had real encouragement from Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu. He wrote to me: "Dear Bishop Christopher: I write to assure you of my support for your position and to assure you of my prayers in the very difficult situation you find yourself in as a result of your principled stand. Please feel free to make public the fact that I support you. God bless you and your family now and always.

What personally sustains you in what is obviously a difficult time?

What has sustained me is to believe that this call is from God -- that's all, in fact.

It seems that you have become a pioneer for the rights of sexual minorities in your country. Did you anticipate that when you first made the decision to become involved?

No -- I didn't know I was a pioneer as such, because I didn't really sit down and say I was going to be involved.

Charges have been leveled by the Church of Uganda's Bishops that Integrity-Uganda is an alien influence from the West. Would you respond to that?

I would have said probably the same if I hadn't met [gay] people, real people, coming to me who are not alien -- who are Ugandans who have these problems. I call it that because in Uganda they still say problems. And, as we've been talking about it now, people have started writing in the papers -- Ugandans -- saying, "No -- we must respect these people. They are among us." Even long ago, before we even had many Westerners in Uganda, this was there.

What do you hold out in terms of hope for reconciliation and transformation?

I've been trying -- trying. In fact, recently I wrote this Bishop who has been really the head of the campaign against me. I said, "I regard you still as my really great friend." He is. And I said, "I hope when I come back -- I would like to continue talking." We should be talking.

To keep the dialogue open?

Yeah -- and I even said to him, "We need to have a course in our seminaries on human sexuality, and this will reduce the conflict."

I don't say we could agree 100%, but I think the gap would be narrowed.

So do you feel hopeful that some change can happen in the future?

Yeah -- I have hope. I don't believe that all Bishops really are against me -- not all. But they are still afraid.

It is very interesting, because [before I came out from Uganda] one of the clergy, a very senior clergyman, was sent to talk to me. But before [this official meeting] I met him and we talked. He said, "Bishop, I believe that if God has shown you to do this you can't do otherwise. I think you should do it." It was wonderful.

Where are you headed next and when will you be going back to Uganda?

I'm heading back to my friends in Maryland. As to when I'm going back to Uganda, I just don't usually like to talk about it -- but as soon as possible.

The people I have been staying with [in the United States] are also my family and my friends. I said to them, "When I was thrown overboard, you took me in." We have a family in Christ. I think this is very, very important. I've been very much appreciative of this.

What is your view of how the church has dealt with human sexuality in general?

I would say that the church generally has not dealt with human sexuality. People have been afraid of human sexuality as such, so there's a lot of taboo connected with it. There's a verse which really helps me a lot, in the Gospel of St. John, Chapter 16, Verse 12 -- "And our Lord said, 'There are still many, many things I would like to tell you but you cannot bear them now.' The only problem is if you're not willing to listen to what the spirit is saying now.