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An Interview with Jeff Zaleski
By Ryan Kuhn

There has been much talk about the "collective consciousness" of cyberspace, yet as of now it seems more acceptable to call it a "collective culture." As with any culture there are certain values that are universal such as love and compassion. These are also intrinsic to spirituality. Is it possible for these values to emerge on the World Wide Web? Is culture and spiritual tradition merely information passed between people and could a community be present without these values?

Whatever human behaviors are found offline will be, and are, found online--including the practice of love and compassion, but also of hate and exploitation. Today, the Net in general values particular human behaviors approximately as American culture does, because the Net, and the Web, are dominated by Americans--that is, by members of a culture that is primarily a blend of secularists and Judaeo-Christians. (Capitalism and pop culture flourish on the Web, but spiritually oriented sites thrive as well--tens of thousands of them.) As the Net becomes more of a global community, it may actually reflect a stronger spiritual tone, as cultures that are more overtly spiritual and less secular than ours, for instance the cultures of Islam, help to shape it. In any case, the Net will always reflect spiritual values, as it is a creation of humanity and we are beings with a spiritual dimension.

You pointed out in The Soul of Cyberspace that the web is arranged laterally, not horizontally. This appears to be a domain where hierarchies diminish and equal representation is emphasized. But English is still the dominant language of the World Wide Web. How do you think this affects the spiritual dialogue and "community" that is emerging there?

The English language itself affects the spiritual dialogue and community of the Net, including the Web, only modestly. Language embodies a certain way of considering the world--in the case of English, as a group of discrete objects (nouns) that act (verbs), rather than as, say, a series of processes--that shapes the world view of those who speak and write it. And world view in turn affects spiritual understanding. Of more import is that the Net is dominated by English speaking peoples, primarily Americans, and thus, as I mention above, reflects above all American culture and values--including the cherishing of democracy and personal liberty. Which in turn means that organized spiritual groupings that emphasize democracy and personal liberty are more likely than others to thrive on the Net.

In many spiritualities the land and place where one lives is sacred. Native cultures define their spirit as a part of the community of the natural world they inhabit. This is also prevalent in Buddhist and Taoist practices. Since the Web is dominated by western language and technology, do you think this may be a further "pioneering" step away from land-oriented practices? Given the degradation the natural world is currently encountering, do you think that this separation has bearing on escapism or otherworldliness?

There is no land on the Net of course, which is composed not of the stuff of the "real world" but of 1's and Os. Ultimately, the Net is a mathematical construct. The Net's divorce from nature is its most serious drawback, particularly insofar as it means a divorce from the body, which is our primary anchor to reality and thus to spiritual energies. Certainly, many people go to the Net to escape, to dream technicolor dreams in this landless, bodyless virtual world. It may be that those who spend much time in cyberspace will learn to cherish the natural world--as the saying goes, absence makes the heart grow fonder. There's nothing like spending four hours staring at a computer monitor to make you appreciate, once you log off, the tang of fresh air, the scent of a flower, the push of the wind against your skin.

You wrote, "our souls become what we make of them. So will the soul of cyberspace." Whereas sites such as The Spire are working towards establishing a "civil discourse" of the world's spiritual traditions, most of the Web is dominated by business. If cyberspace is a reflection of ourselves, what do you think this means on a spiritual level of today's consciousness?

The most rancorous workplace I've experienced in my three decades of employment has been a workplace devoted to nonprofit spiritual study. The most genteel has been a workplace devoted to for-profit business study. That the Web is dominated by business isn't a problem for spiritual growth, if one is open to the possibility of spiritual work in the midst of everyday life, including business life. However, while business may be conducted on the Web, it's questionable as to what extent whether religion or spiritual practices can be. Nearly all spiritually oriented sites on the Web are informational. Spiritual practice--be it meditation, the taking of sacraments, the performance of ritual--is absent, with a few exceptions, among them prayer. There are prayer rooms on the Net, and there are prayer meetings. The absence arises from the absence of the body in cyberspace, and the consequent difficulty of engaging in spiritual practices that depend on the body--from formal sitting to baptism to eating a Kosher meal to being in the presence of a spiritual master.

Lao Tzu said, "He who strives for knowledge increases every day; he who strives for Tao decreases every day." You made the observation that attention is "the basic tool of spiritual realization." When most people surf the Web they are like hungry ghosts, grasping for the ever-increasing wave, jumping from page to page. How do you think this may affect spiritual practices, and more specifically, the multitude of youth on-line today?

The Web is a giant dream machine. But then, so is much else in life. We're likely to fall spiritually asleep anywhere, online or off. We're hungry ghosts nearly always, no matter where we are or what we are doing. The Web does present a particular challenge, as it is a particularly powerful giant dream machine. But that doesn't mean that it should be avoided, especially by adults, but only that spiritual vigilance, or watchfulness, or wakefulness, is called for with renewed vigor online as well as offline. Children generally don't have the tools or experience to resist or to be aware of media, including the Net's hypnotic powers, however. My observation tells me that kids tend to grow more slack-jawed around TV sets than around computer monitors, though. Most computer programs demand some degree of interactivity, while surfing the Web is a relatively pro-active pursuit. Zombies can watch TV, but not surf the Web. Still, better for a kid to go ride a bike, or play piano, or play with the dog, than to spend a lot of time staring at a screen.

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